Wednesday, 12 December 2007

Dictation Manipulation earwigs on... Ella & Kate

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DoneGal said...

Transcription - for all of you that don't have speakers?...

D I C T A T I O N M A N I P U L AT I O N E A R W I G S O N … E L L A & K A T E


KATE: From a completely objective perspective, I kind of resent the idea of tribes in any way, shape or form, I feel that imposing, sort of arbitrary names and titles, on like, groups of people is completely pointless.

ELLA: No it’s never a good thing, but from journalistic perspective, recognising and identifying tribes sells really, really well!

KATE: Yeah…

ELLA: I know it’s not a good thing, but like the whole ‘Indie’ scene that’s a complete tribe.

KATE: … but having imposed identity though, is a really dangerous concept.

ELLA: Definitely, but I don’t think, their kind of imposed, definitely with the Indie thing, young kids, young boys and girls, they just buy into that because they want to be part of that scene.

KATE: Yeah, like here, though, this, I know it’s like a cultural tribe that Future Lab is identifying but this Highly Educated, Independent, Degree Carrying Individual’s thing, sure that’s not a tribe – that’s something that’s happened since the beginning of the nineteenth century, women have been to University, have degrees and have been highly educated.

ELLA: But maybe if you read a bit more, about the tribe and why they are different and what their aims are and stuff, its about, they, you know the market wants to read about these tribes so they can use them as an audience and tap into that audience. Because they have to know about… there have to be tribes.

KATE: I just really resent the idea of having any sort of identity imposed on me by people from the outside, I consider myself to be a subjective individual.

ELLA: No, definitely, but there’s certain patterns that you follow… or certain things that you buy that make you a certain type of consumer. It’s not about labelling, well it is labelling you but it’s not doing it in a sort of negative way, sometimes its just stating a fact.

………………………………………………..

ELLA: Like Yummy Mummies - its just describing a certain group of people’s lifestyles, it’s not saying that you have to do that, its just identifying them.

KATE: But I think people buy into a particular lifestyle, and particular tribe and what that means and what that ascribes – that is not a good thing and that is perpetuated by the very fact that people doing this, providing this.

ELLA: Yeah…

KATE: And the whole idea of trying to identify that perpetuates these sort of misplaced, displaced identities - people try and ascribe to, trying to force themselves to fit in which causes so many problems in society, in terms of social alienation.

ELLA: Yeah… I just think that fashion is a business…

KATE: Yeah, I guess…

ELLA: … and its like with any other business they are just recognising their market.

KATE: Completely.

ELLA: Finding a gap in the market and then filling that.

KATE: That’s really cynical though.

ELLA: But that’s the truth. Enough of it really.

KATE: I guess it’s a cynical industry.

ELLA: It’s not just fashion though, it’s pretty much every industry.

KATE: Yeah, yeah, completely, completely…Music is exactly the same. But again, that could be like the death of all creativity if you look at it from that perspective, like you were just saying.

ELLA: Yeah, that’s the problem, I think that’s why fashion is just so bland now, its just because they have all these magazines, they tap into them, they have WGSN they read it, see a couple of trends, saves them a bit of work and they can get on with the designing… and that’s why there’s nothing that innovative ever produced in fashion anymore - except for Christopher Kane, that did something new and therefore everyone loved him for it! And Gareth Pugh – who may not have sold anything…

KATE: Yeah, I’m not surprised, oh I’d love a big square coat…

ELLA: Yeah, I’d love a big gimp outfit… but at least he did something different. You Know…

KATE: Yeah, I completely agree, and like you were saying, that filters down and that could create something new, like a different…

ELLA: Yeah, and like yeah, Neu Rave may have been pretty naff, but at least Christopher Kane did, you know… I dunno, it’s just something different.

KATE: It’s weird how that happened though, like when Christopher Kane did it, it was completely original and his clothes were completely original, but when it filtered down it became this sort of watered down eighties… and it’s like ‘That’s not what Christopher Kane was!’

ELLA: No, but could you really sell bright…

KATE: … bandage dresses…

ELLA: Like yeah, luminous bandage dresses for the average size fourteen woman? Not so much!

KATE: I can’t wait to see women on every corner wearing high waisted, underneath their boobs, leather miniskirts!

ELLA: Well we’ll have to wait and see… even like that’s not original, that’s like fetish clothing, that’s been worn for years and years and years. I think it’s quite funny really!

KATE: It’s incredibly… it’s a really interesting issue. It’s crazy, and it’s really complicated, this idea of…

ELLA: … has fashion lost any creativity?

KATE: What, in its drive to become more and more commercial?

ELLA: Yeah

KATE: To sell better and better…

ELLA: And these magazine, just make it pretty easy for them to be honest.

KATE: I guess it is a contradiction in terms, for something to be truly creative, it has to be in effect new, and if it is completely new, then people aren’t really comfortable. And the whole idea of something that is truly creative and truly new, is that it disturbs the pattern of that which has gone before. It’s disturbs peoples entrenched perceptions.

ELLA: Yes, it’s a risk isn’t it?

KATE: Yeah and I guess, if it is a commercial industry, then they obviously just wouldn’t take that risk.

ELLA: Just, I understand that its very difficult now to do something completely new, but Vivienne Westwood, she never does anything, I mean maybe I’m wrong, but she never does anything completely new, she takes things from the past basically messes it all up, and does something, comes at it from a new angle, as a designer, I think you should be able to do that.

KATE: Completely, I love Vivienne Westwood as well, and I love her for that reason. I love that she has completely her own vision of the world and she does draw on everything around her and therefore isn’t in essence, completely new, but she ruthlessly pursues her own vision, her individual perception and her own way of looking at the world and looking at women’s bodies and things, and she just sticks to that. She’s not at all influenced by, sort of, you know, I mean, obviously like, trends come into it, but she’s not influenced to any great extent by sort of outside…

ELLA: No, she’s not, no. Your right.

KATE: I think that’s what brilliant - individual creative vision and following that through completely ruthlessly and committing to it.

ELLA: Vivienne Westwood’s clothes are also very wearable…

KATE: Yeah

ELLA: … and they’re quite, not all of them are commercial obviously, but some of them are, and she can sell clothes. But you know, like Gareth Pugh, he did do something that was completely new but it just wasn’t commercially viable - in any way, and it was amazing! Colin McDowell wrote this fantastic article on him and it was brilliant but he sort of said ‘Well, is anyone actually going to buy this? Probably not, no.

KATE: But that’s the brilliance of it, I guess that makes it even more powerful and potent in a way.

ELLA: But he needs to, you know, drink his tea and have beans on toast doesn’t he?

KATE: I guess this sort of spills over into cinate, which more the sort of stuff that I know about in terms of cinema, there’s this issue with all these different sorts of films like, artistic, avant-garde experimental film - should it be screened in a cinema space or should it be screened in an art gallery space? And, like, is this a commercial product that’s being put out to entertain people? Like, you could say ‘Are these clothes being put out as a consumer product or are they works of art?’ Are they meant to be perceived as a deliberate, sort of, attempt at doing something purely aesthetic and not commercial?

ELLA: Well that’s the like, I think that’s the crux of it really. You know, like The Death of Couture, they are not commercially viable products, therefore they are pretty much dying out and designers seem to be selling out so much more, like Giles Deacon for New Look…

KATE: … (laughing) sorry, that’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard…

ELLA: … and all these celebrity endorsements now with all the shops, like, fashion is essentially a money making business and it’s no longer seen as an art form, which I think is an absolute travesty because some of the things you see are, really are art, I do think that. But that side of fashion’s been sort of shunned away now, and it is just a money making, highly commercial, lucrative business.

KATE: Maybe Gareth Pugh should do a fashion show in the Tate Modern or something.

ELLA: He should!

KATE: And then it would be amazing, and then maybe people would appreciate it for what it actually is…

ELLA: Yeah, and how much of fashion is art?

KATE: … rather than just like, ‘hmm… would anybody wear it though?’ Surely he could just say, ‘Fuck that, that’s not the point.’

ELLA: They should be thinking, ‘That’s incredible, how the hell did he do that?’
- Its like Christopher Kane’s, like, the leather, ruffled skirts – How did he get the leather to do that?

KATE: Yeah, It’s amazing!

ELLA: It’s real craftsmanship, and yeah ok, not many people are going to buy that, but it’s amazing! And why can’t people look at that in the same way that they’d look at, you know, a piece of art and appreciate it in that way? As opposed to going, ‘Oh God, Fashion – its so, low brow!’ - It’s not!

KATE: Yeah, it’s the same with cinema as well, people watch films and they go, ‘How arty-farty and shit is that!’ Maybe film isn’t there to entertain you, or maybe fashion isn’t there solely to provide you with something to wear, to make you look good, maybe its there to be a means of expression, a means of communication, a means of individuality and creativity, doing something new and interesting, its not just there to serve the bane matters.

13 December 2007 at 11:02

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